6/29/09: Guest, Ron Insana

" several -- online and on demand. Here. 700 Boston."

" What I said to the court. It's out when Bernard Madoff and his life. And that you and I birds and the judge to do what he did with the with the sentencing for the rest of his life that when -- President. Would mean death there is depth of -- lead -- into virtually on mourned by anybody on this card. Where. They'll join -- the people who. Are in the bowels of satan."

" Well that is one of legion victims. Of I think we can agree. Consensus a monster by the name of Bernie Madoff. There is no one who could offer us. More insight on this -- famous money man Ron in China and it just so happens. He's our guest. Welcome back best and brightest fellow info maniac run and -- Is really at the very top of the pyramid even in an era of many competing voices of financial analysis and the markets and everything else. -- sonic is the most articulate best informed he returns to our shows a guest to bring more than 25 years experience. I'd say Ron quarter century but I want to AG you know -- It's more diplomatic. Experience is financial journalist reporting on. Wall Street everything having to do with -- money also working force that was from running his own hedge fund and today today. Run inside debuts his new newsletter which is the street dot com's market movers Ron welcome back."

" But it could be back thanks to its battle against Lebanon -- dictates that. Going to be back."

" Good to have you back in Boston now you know my first reaction to this sentence is. With a good appeals lawyer can cut that in half. Cut 150 years and a half."

" what is best case benefit because I want to 150."

" look there's no reason why going to tell lawyer can't get about can't get him out when he's 140 -- fifty. As as silly as this sounds and I don't want to. I don't squander our time -- you. But for those of us who like me. Don't know a lot about money. And who have sort of peripherally been following national we concerted tell the story kind of but we don't really know it does this they're really short version of what what who he is in what he --"

" You know he was susceptible to criminal I mean in a certain sense it it almost doesn't matter that he used an asset management firm a money management firm. Data broker dealer to commit this crime this was simply. The fact and most likely not bad joke is that there's some money laundering associated with this as well. It's been going on for a very very long time and I suspected he was tied up maybe with an international criminals to include this -- should be not cooperating."

" And -- on there's no way in the world. Just give in the logistics of this there's no way to hide. Or move around is it billions of dollars."

" A look at this 65 billion dollar Ponzi scheme. He had at the end of his rope there if you will thirteen billion dollars in assets under management which never. Saw a single trade take place the trade that would put them and they funny that every document they could come up with. And they never really traded on behalf of the clients who invested thirteen billion dollar a bunch."

" So presumably it's impossible to do this to move this money around -- without a lot of collaborator."

" Cannot do it while it's impossible and look a lot of people -- at fault for not protecting investors and if you went and saw his storefront auditor. I never -- out the place and it was kind of you know it's a chance it will died. He would never have given -- money if if you just look at his return -- where -- got 12% every year almost impossible to do every year."

" He -- it was not as from what I've read of how he marketed. He was sort."

" Yes yes that was integrated premium marketing -- rock -- it was not a -- closed up I can't take anymore money two weeks later because somebody up and say listen. You know I just an investor takes some money out I'm -- actually and he did that up until a few weeks before he closed -- new."

" Slobbering his feet right for the opportunity."

" Listen when I was on the money people ask me if I can get capacity with a guy and we we assumed. That he was probably doing some shady things we never ever thought that was the scope in the size of the magnitude of this but this is the biggest thing in history the."

" The first time I've heard that because I. Only heard again as an as an amateur and in given my purely surface reading of these events. I assume this guy's name was called platinum on on you know in the Wall Street community so there were there were people who thought in the rather shady character."

" There's no doubt absolutely I mean they just data that one to produce those types of returns here and in your outlook without any -- years. And I call I think you marketed himself without ever having a down market that is almost impossible statistically it's impossible. And -- nobody did the right to diligence on him. It is a gentleman by the name of an accomplice to a --"

" This is the whistle blower yes."

" The support I can -- paper it is amazing how close to the truth this guy got. Without knowing burning that he -- ahead and and you know one of the biggest crimes are too is that regulatory oversight was so -- that he was able to get away with."

" It was like hockey like let the boys play. Waiting to put the whistle the play the game now yeah. Whistle blower."

" Made -- he made this investigation on his own. UT went to the SEC yes."

" Yeah out of Boston practice started Darren -- got a new York and in the -- in 1999 in them and brought it up again over the course -- through 2005. And they wanted attention."

" Is this -- and saw a case of -- sort of understandable sheer power that. No one wanted to be the one to trying to jab Bernie Madoff. "

" You know agenda more powerful guys and Bernie Madoff the Wall Street so I don't this is something went to today I don't understand I don't understand how it happened. I don't understand. How he was able to move that much money around without. The attention of regulators I don't understand how investors. Give him money. Knowing that he in fact. Didn't have an operation that was audited by a credible firm -- that was cleared by an external. Broker dealer. These flags were around and people throw money at them. And and it did it all happened to you know just just as easily it is as he could imagine that this is imponderable that. 65 billion dollars effectively vanished over the course of time. And that you know except for him accomplished very few people. --"

" Running -- is our guest in his website which debuts today. -- is found at triple W dot in -- moves -- com that's INS. NA NA in -- moves. Dot com -- in order to make this work I take it there were some people who -- Who are who had our relationship for a pastor a story with Bernie Madoff but they got out and actually made a lot of money."

" Then there's an interest in proper governments say you know it is. Little -- invoke something called fraudulent conveyance which is if you took your money even unwittingly. Out of burning them as fronts for six years in the days prior to -- from being shut down. The government can go back after you for the profits and the principal. And outlook and I that's gonna work."

" Interest probably."

" Let's salute to -- that's really really kind of -- I think that some people may have taken money out with foreknowledge my understanding to -- that there were some. Overseas investors -- he was about two blocks that tried to take several billion dollars so right away and that's really pursued the typical precipitate department collapsed. And those around him who -- him money. Mike estimation and I'm Japanese names are not going to get to a situation where were ma -- you know."

" Don't let your money on going to tell ourselves."

" It's -- exactly what I -- people -- your money had to have some idea what was going on otherwise they were completely. Incompetent and criminally negligent for having given them money."

" Because it was just this is a grow the you know all the grown up world money is grown up and it was too good to be true."

" Yeah money's going to happen in the years he wiped bread -- the -- for a period of time and we will not -- due diligence on the managers and it was something wrong or something that even made what. Remains of the on the back of my neck stand asks. Excellent in the money. You know it's it's that simple you just don't hand over millions of dollars or more to somebody who -- feel comfortable with and who doesn't really have. All the right you know. Box is checked when it comes to being a legitimate enterprise."

" I don't know when it was there a minimum level of investment -- awarded that scary at first you really had to be heavy hitter and then toward the end he took. Mom and pop stores or what."

" He -- moms and pops in the sense that you know at the Palm Beach Country Club then you know the upper east side of the Europeans. And smaller and larger Jewish philanthropy easy that he took whatever they do -- but by and large. Given the type of -- he ran the -- you know big dollar investment that has some minimums and has. Requirements for individuals to be -- what they call accredited investors -- qualified purchasers should."

" Let -- show they're a dollar figure in the ballpark of what one needed to be in order to."

" Good that it was probably 500000 dollars that's typically the minimum that they get I would imagine out of that."

" Certainly more or less liquid at that level. And credit at that level."

" Yeah accredited data because you have certain network requirements met and and then you can give him a certain amount of money whatever the minimum is that he establishes."

" Question run as it is there it is is it is critical to this one. So a lot of Americans may have initially at least it felt hey these are rich people. And the -- their money in it takes their chance to -- and so they may -- may in welcome Mitt minimal. Sympathy because of that yet as I start a little more closely and I -- that he will be. The nature in the magnitude the number of victims people who work. Every day middle class upper middle class people who had a future and that's something to give their kids -- had a business had a home. He ruined I mean -- to the poor house room to the point of suicide did not lots and lots of people."

" The international banker would give them money to kill himself there. Are people according to reports we've seen it work going through dumpsters looking for food there -- people who have sold. Either the only home for a multiple homes that they -- and went from having money can literally having nothing. And look I mean it in a certain sense. People need to be responsible for the investments they make and never ever give one person all the money that they have a great majority of it. But by the same token or people who were befriended by Bernie Madoff who trusted him implicitly over the period of twenty to thirty years. And he just ripped off but if it was -- Jewish land based. And put some of them out of business then -- you -- just yet. American Jewish Congress was wiped out Yeshiva University was was crushed by this."

" Are you pointed with stumbled with one person nor does the one person so prominent in an organization wielding this kind of power that hurt. As many people as Bernie Madoff as."

" Magazine and the like a magnetic even in in all the failures that I've seen. Give -- some of which were -- upon these schemes some of which were you know. If people were criminally negligent. You know listen Enron was a pretty good deal you know an element that went down as a corporate fraud a -- you know the -- of the world."

" And might not -- that a lot of people like me anyway I don't know any better I'd say Mike Milken is the name from passive customer."

" The type of thing that that was much more professional. You know I mean he he. I don't look at him and I think the big if they didn't violate political. Support -- in the -- late eighties and early ninety's it certainly violated the spirit. But it was like they will repeat the public off directly to the captive market and junk bond -- forced companies to do some deals that were probably an economic. But a -- of straight. Speed limit isn't working you're -- it up there may as well gone into a bank with a machine gun. They had 65 billion dollars senate and is much of a criminal but as someone who does that."

" And that's want to go with this when I when I talk to the best and brightest because there's a very thin line that seems to me between at this this stretches that envelope between white collar crime and otherwise he just didn't have a gun right."

" You know god that we you'd still -- and you get sort of got right."

" Joked about other thing -- lawyer a lawyer grant confessed to more than a hundred men with guns right."

" That's exactly right and that's what he did and that you know. It is it is it's a crime it's a shame it up. Departed did that pressures even more as the fact that the lack of regulatory oversight during this entire period that includes Madoff. And some of these other problems we've had recently. It is really somewhat unparalleled in -- economic history and and and it's disturbing and I don't know how they fix it is such a way and I doubt. That's something like this won't happen again and I liked."

" I don't at a price that the price were on that may be the includes over regulation right as a reaction to this."

" The rest in the late twenties you know after the the roaring twenties that certainly happened at the Enron case. We get sarbanes Oxley which you know -- some smaller mid sentence companies disproportionately. And -- the ability to business. And we'll see what happens now as as as -- regulations get -- or whether or not. -- it -- the economic recovery before it even starts let's say it's a great question and it's one you know we think about every day."

" Ron and sun is the money men and and his website. Today debuts -- is the street -- doc comes market movers and yours -- you find at triple W dot. In Shana moves. Dot com -- posted to our website. Will make reference to a later to make sure you're able to reach it. Ron that's the board and more than I could hope to -- a short time in short it was exactly what I expected it will wish you luck with the new web -- luck being the residue of skill. So like I know it's gonna go gangbusters and I thank you so much for visiting us several -- come --"

" Also Judaism as part of -- that."

" and son at best and brightest 6178221969. For tomorrow's -- pound 969 -- short and sweet I think. How Bernie Madoff ruined families and people and their children. I think capital punishment should apply here I say put to death."

" Thanks for downloading and listening to -- Jay Severin. Come back -- Boston talk evolution might -- 69 WTKK. It is fun line. And on demand."